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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 10, 2005 7:14:30 GMT -5
Johnny Randolph had wanted an FM for WAKY at least since the early '70s. If WAKY had migrated to FM do you think it would have survived?
What about a rebirth? If Gordon McClendon rose from the grave and came into Louisville today to set up a contemporary WAKY would it make it? I'm talking about a true top 40 with personality.
The same questions for WKLO, except WKLO did have FM but they didn't exactly transplant the format. What vestages of WKLO remain if any? Is there any relevance to the HiFi Club today?
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Post by bruiser on Jul 10, 2005 10:48:47 GMT -5
WKLO did simulcast on AM and FM for a few years. Then the FCC rules changed, and they had to differentiate the programming.
Another factor, back then, FM radios weren't exactly easy to find. And they were overpriced when you did find one.
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 10, 2005 13:35:53 GMT -5
I remember the simulcasts well. Bob Shannon saying goodnight FM around 11PM. I think I recall that the FCC mandated that all receivers include FM and that's what made FM happen. I may be confusing this mandate with the UHF TV mandate which I am certain of.
But the question really is, could these formats have survived on FM, neither really were taken there. Or could they be reborn today on FM.
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2005 14:23:23 GMT -5
I dont' think so, Mike. The 'quality' of the so called music of TODAY'S Top 40 wouldn't fit the format or jock style WAKY and WKLO had back in the 60's and 70's. Can you see Bill Bailey or Dude Walker talking up hip-hop or rap? Methinksnot. Perhaps some of the hot A/C stations, like 107.3 WTHX in E'town. Of course should they slide in behind the mike of RKA or 103.5, they'd have no problem. But as far as today's music, I'm not sure the listeners would appreciate or even UNDERSTAND them!
I guess I'm in the place of my parents in the 70's where I just can't see a bridging of the gap between my generation and today's kids/young adults.
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Post by Kevin on Jul 10, 2005 14:24:14 GMT -5
Mike,
When you say could these formats have survived, or would survive today, on FM, I take it that you mean (I may be Mr Obvious here) a top 40 rotation format, with strong DJ presence, with the DJ's talking over the songs before actual singing has begun.
I believe FM stations like 99 point something and KISS96 are already doing that. Right?
As far as could they have been successful in the past, I have to regretfully say no (in my humble opinion). The young crowd was ready for a complete change. In the late 70's, folks were wanting 20 minute guitar solos, and entire album sides run with no interruption. This was sought by them because most of them were taking drugs that needed that type of music. A great deal of them were tuning in and turning off in life and wanted a new listening experince.
I think that a WAKY and WKLO FM may have lived longer if they had went FM COMPLETELY and could have survived till the eighties when the long guitar solos and drug morphed back into TOP 40. (Remember KJ100?)
But as for the last half of the 70's, WAKY and WKLO were just simply out of style and as everything in life (for better or worse as Max always says), something new this way comes.
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2005 14:39:21 GMT -5
Kevin, I know what you're talking about. I guess late in high school that was what I wanted. The old WWKK-105 in Fort Knox (formerly WSAC-FM) used to do exactly that with their album spotlight. Before we knew it was illegal, I accumulated alot of tapes by Heart, Joe Walsh, Al Stewart (Time Passages) and Firefall (Elan). In 1984 before I joined the Navy I was also able to get a so-so tape of David Bowie's Serious Moonlight Tour simulcast with WLRS as part of the King Biscuit Flour Hour. Likewise, I was able to tape King Biscuit's 'Foreigner Live from the Omni Atlanta' in 1979.
K-105 would make it easy to tape by stating "rolls in 5 seconds, gang". Then we all found out it was illegal. :-(
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 10, 2005 15:38:56 GMT -5
I don't think todays stations really have the feel of what top 40 was. Music was really top-40 then, the best of the best. You might hear "Soul" music, country, novielty (remember "Gimmie Dat Ding"), pop, sound tracks. There is not that mix today. A few years ago I recall thinking how much contemporary country was like a part of top-40 in the pre-Beatles age.
Part of what killed top-40 was the album stations with no or few commercials and could play whole sides and the 20 minute guitar solos. Now those stations have not the 12 minutes/hour of commercials that seemed awful on top-40, but that much and more. If you want the guitar solo today you have to get it on your IPod.
Just some grist for the discussion.
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2005 16:22:52 GMT -5
Yes, Mike, I remember in the 70's as well how country crossed over to Top 40. Charlie Rich, Jeannie C. Riley & Jeanne Pruitt come to mind. One would say don't forget John Denver, Olivia Newton-John, Freddy Fender, Glen Campbell, and Ronnie Milsap, but these artists never really WERE country only, but regularly had hits both genres. Heck, as most people know, Glen Campbell was a Beach Boy for a short time.
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Post by Ben Pflederer on Jul 10, 2005 17:29:16 GMT -5
Could a station like WAKY & WKLO survive on FM? It would probably take some time in Big Lou, with 103.5 and WRKA, if came on the air as a start-up. Look at the ratings in the bigger markets, of the established stations with that type of programming. KOMA-FM, Oklahoma City; WPGB (FM), Peoria, IL; WCBS-FM (now Jack FM); WRIT (FM), Milwaukee, to name a few. Look at the $$$ these stations probably bring in. WRLL (AM), Chicago, is a start-up oldies station with former WLS & WCFL jocks. They are moving slowly up the ratings. Though the jingles are not of the 60's or 70's, the jocks are. They no longer shout, as the 60's, but they still ROCK. Could a WAKY-FM or WKLO-FM survive? I would think so, with a good business plan. ;D Get the Call Letters back without the -FM attached.
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Post by Max on Jul 10, 2005 17:40:12 GMT -5
Oh, goodie!!! Can we spin 45's again? :-)
I'm game if anyone has a plan!
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Post by Travis on Jul 10, 2005 19:47:11 GMT -5
I've often wondered if a station utilizing Randolph's formatics of the early '70s would have an impact today. Think about it. High energy delivery confined strictly to intros & extros complete with extro jingles & Shouts.
When an attempt was made to "recreate the magic" of WAKY in the '80s the oldies were fantastic, but the excitement was missing. Liz Curtis speaking in a sugary-syrupy delivery, with no music under her, was not the WAKY that had been so exciting in the past. Even Steve Cook did not have the energy that had made him "the weekend warrior" at WAKY during the early '70s at age 19.
Yes. WAKY had some dynamic personalities, and that certainly didn't hurt, but I believe it was the formatics that made the station the legend that it is. It didn't matter who was on. The jock could be as zany as the Weird Beard, as creative as Gary Burbank or as straight as Dude Walker and still you knew what station you were listening to and loved it.
It's my understanding that the job of a program director is to take a diverse group of on-air personalities (which could certainly describe the jocks at any station) and give them an identity of ONE. I believe Randolph's formatics succeeded in doing just that. Throw in those unique call letters, allow the dynamic jocks to do their thing (within the intro/extro requirements) and WAKY became one fun radio station 24/7.
Bill Bailey was made an exception, but in listening to his airchecks I found that he really didn't stray all that much from the formatics. He just had more liberty with them and treated them as a guide rather than a rule. And since listeners actually wanted to hear what he had to say, he could do no harm.
Could the magic of WAKY be recreated today? I really don't know since I have yet to hear any station actually recreate those formatics. There's also the issue of audio processing on stereo FM stations and how it relates to talking over intros & extros. Today's jocks either pot the music too far down, or not enough, and it sounds bad either way. Highly compressed AM stations were able to makeup for most of these errors, but I'm certainly not hearing it on FM.
As they say, Presentation is Key.
Are You Sounding #1? (sign on wall of WAKY control room during early '70s)
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Post by Kevin on Jul 10, 2005 20:17:56 GMT -5
Where was WAKY ranked in the Arbitrons back in the 70s? Was it Number 1?
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 11, 2005 13:42:54 GMT -5
Mostly it was number 1 until sometime 77-78.
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Post by Max on Jul 11, 2005 13:50:44 GMT -5
Pretty much the time Hi95 got extremely popular!
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 11, 2005 14:17:04 GMT -5
I didn't follow radio much after I left WAKY in March '77 but there were a number of factors that converged. WLRS was one too. The beginnings of fragmentation because of increasing numbers of FM receivers, FM getting into cars. I know that no stations ever got the overwhelming numbers that the big AM stations once enjoyed again.
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Post by Kevin on Jul 11, 2005 15:32:27 GMT -5
What was WKLO rated?
WHAS?
WAVE?
Just curious if anyone remembers.
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skippert
New Member
How-deeeeee all old Waky and 'KLO fans...
Posts: 7
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Post by skippert on Jul 11, 2005 17:04:45 GMT -5
Good radio is good radio... Once the common listener had their bias against Amplitude Modulation, I think YES, a form of WAKY or WKLO would have survived, but evolve like all formats.. Louisville, as well as many cities experienced successful personality formated CHR/Top-40 stations, starting about 1974 and on.. 98/KSLQ ran second and third behind News/Talk KMOX and dead with AOR KSHE/95 from about 1974 through 1981.. Then a new high energy hit with the personality did the same until CBS decided to go oldies with many of their O&O'd CHR stations as KHTR pulled a consistant top three 12+ rating in St. Louis from 1982 through about 1990 or so... It seemed the music narrowed into sub moduled formats.. But, I remember KJ-100 having great jocks to start the Live Top-40 era on Derby City radio.. 'DJX is a remnant of that, today, as they are defined as a Urban-CHR or as we say, Churban outlet.. Gosh... Q102 in it's hey day in Cincy? WNAP or WZPL in their hey day in Indy? B-96 in Chicago? Z-100 in NYC and the long running and still kind of fun Y-100 in Miami (Still a CHR/Pop outlet that stays in the top ten of the overcrowded Miam-Ft.Lauderdale market)... I remember how the Chicago kids though our 50Kw FM CHR/Top-40 in Carbondale was a WLS/WCFL sound in FM Stereo! Even WLS did some simulcasting starting in '81 with WRCK (which reverted back to WLS-FM for a few years).... WAKY and WKLO could have been succesful in some measure! Never 40 to 50 shares of the sixties, though... You went from about 5 to 6 good AM signals and four FM background stations to twenty or so FM's and about 10 to a dozen AM's in or around Louisville dividing the Arbitron pie into smaller fragments... "Skipper T."
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 11, 2005 17:28:20 GMT -5
JQ has Louisville ratings from '78 posted on the WKLO site. www.1080wklo.com/images/Arb-Fall1978.jpg You will have to download the image and use a picture viewing program so you can zoom in on it to read it. WAKY was already seriously erroded by this time. I wish I had saved some of the rating sheets from the seventies but never even thougt of it.
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Post by Kevin on Jul 11, 2005 20:01:15 GMT -5
Thanks Mike, those ratings are very interesting.
Poor WTMT.
A consistant 1 point something across the board. I know who that one listerner was, my aunt who lived in my grandmotthers basement her whole life. When I was a kid I remember her always having WTMT country on. Looks like she was about the only listener.
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 11, 2005 21:00:19 GMT -5
My parents had listened to WTMT back in the 60's. When WINN went country they switched, that left your aunt.
My father particularly liked to drive around, drink beer, and listen to country music.
I worked at WKRX in 1970 (now WVEZ). I recall seeing WAKY in the low 20's overall. WAVE interestingly was highest overall. When you broke things down into age groups that advertisers wanted WAKY was ahead.
WKRX scarcely showed. We were playing a the lighter stuff that the top 40's were playing and every other song was an instermental. On weekends there was a progressive show, but also the Metropolitin Opera. The Metropolitin Opera paid the bills. Sometime in early '71, Keith Reising, the owner, switched it to all beautiful music. It was a good move for him, but I quit. Keith's son later told me that he hated the music, but it was sure nice having that extra piece of meat on the table. WKRX was a shoestring operation. I imagine Keith did very nicely when he sold the station. I see WVEZ looked pretty respectable in the '78 ratings.
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Post by 1240WINN on Jul 13, 2005 7:42:00 GMT -5
I think that WAKY, WKLO, and WINN could have survived (and thrived) on FM. The handwriting was on the wall when FM radios began proliferating in cars in the late 1970's. That, coincidentally, was when Hi-95 and WLRS really began to prosper.
Had WKLO-FM been made the primary frequency for the Top-40 broadcasts in the early 70's, it would have had the distinction of being the first Top-40 on FM in Louisville. And if Johnny Randolph had gotten his wish, then the battle would have been renewed on the FM band.
You have to remember that in the early 70's most FM stations were classical, news, or album rock. Being the first Top 40 station on FM would have given either WAKY or WKLO a leg up in the Louisville market.
And you have to give Coyote Calhoun credit for talking the Bingham family into taking WHAS-FM, which by that time was WNNS all-news, and creating the first FM country station in Louisville. WINN, WTMT, and the dozen or so country stations that have existed in Louisville since 1978, were all doomed at that point.
Speaking of WINN, as I am prone to do, I think that their format and personalities would have thrived on an FM frequency. Had they been first, then WAMZ may not have been so successful. Remember that two of the original WAMZ staff members, Karl Shannon and Dickie Braun, were on WINN during the mid-70s. WINN had a format that appealed to traditional country listeners, but they didn't always play conventional country. What other country station would have played "Seems Like I Can't Live With You But I Can't Go On Without You" by the Guess Who? Moon Mullins had a good ear for Country Music and listened to what the audience had to say. On Saturdays, he would audition new records and get audience feedback. Kind of a 70's version of "Make It Or Break It".
I think that WAKY, WKLO, and WINN could have been great FM stations if they had made the jump around 1975 or 1976.
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RJC
Junior Member
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Post by RJC on Jul 14, 2005 8:47:17 GMT -5
I don't know, I just couldn't hear WAKY and WKLO playing backstreet boys and Brittney Spears. And even if WAKY and WKLO had gone on to FM and prospered, would any of us, even listen to either of them? The fate that WAKY and WKLO suffered was probably for the best.
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 14, 2005 9:18:26 GMT -5
WAMZ does prove that WINN could have made it on FM. As to WAKY playing Britney and the Backstreet Boys....who can say? The idea of Top 40 is the best of the best music from al genres. It's not nessecarily what's being played today.
I see radio today like the old Roller Derby Teams. Some of the skaters would block so their teammate could get out front. Today some stations are throw-aways so others can get out front. Single stations aren't always programmed to be the best. It's how can we squeeze the most out of our investment in this block of radio properties.
What does everyone think about this Roller Derby style radio? Is this a cynical view?
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Post by Max on Jul 14, 2005 10:48:18 GMT -5
A very good analogy, Mike, seeing how through deregulation a given number of radio stations can now share common ownership. And with alot of stations constantly reinventing themselves by way of format change it also looks like the unseasoned fisherman who doesn't know what fish (listener) he's fishing for, so he keeps changing bait/techniques and sometimes even pole (format) in hopes of landing a big fish (advertising contracts).
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Post by bruiser on Jul 14, 2005 11:48:37 GMT -5
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RJC
Junior Member
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Post by RJC on Jul 15, 2005 2:14:51 GMT -5
What does everyone think about this Roller Derby style radio? Is this a cynical view? I like it, and I think that's the role that 790 and 1080 provide for WHAS radio today. As far as Top 40 radio today, I couldn't tell you one song that's even in the Top 40 right now. As far as WKLO being on FM, my argument is that WKLO is still alive to some extint, since WDJX is a decendant of WKLO. 99.7 WDJX is what WKLO would sound like on FM today.
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 15, 2005 2:58:47 GMT -5
I can understand why you might make the argument about DJX. But I disagree that it is the same thing. I don't think the music mix is there. Nor is the level of community involvement.
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RJC
Junior Member
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Post by RJC on Jul 15, 2005 3:09:11 GMT -5
I can understand why you might make the argument about DJX. But I disagree that it is the same thing. I don't think the music mix is there. Nor is the level of community involvement. My only disagreement would be that if WAKY and WKLO were both around today, they would be cookie cutter radio stations today(meaning they would sound like Top 40 radio stations in LA, New York or any other American city). I think that Clear Channel would own either WAKY or WKLO, and community involvment by either station would be much like it is with the current Top 40 stations. I think you could slap the WAKY name on KISS 98.9 and WKLO on WDJX right now, and hear how WAKY and KLO would have turn out. Maybe I'm just too cynical about todays radio. The only way WAKY and WKLO would mean anything to me in current radio, would be if WRKA and WASE picked up those call letters for thier oldies formats..
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Post by Max on Jul 15, 2005 7:16:01 GMT -5
Your last paragraph is a bit of a stretch, RJC!
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Post by Mike Griffin on Jul 15, 2005 9:21:24 GMT -5
My thought in writing the question was if the stations were allowed to have naturally grown. And a second thought, what if Gordon McClendon (or another radio visionary) came to town today and put a new FM on in the WAKY vein. If we drop those premises, then I have to agree with you -- a cookie cutter station and just so much more trash on the air. As I talked about earlier in the thread, we are into roller derby style radio. In the current ownership/management scheme no one would give a d**n about anything other than the bottom line. It's not about good radio, entertainment, or public service by any stretch of the imagination -- it's only about money. Money is an important thing, but as with so many things that are happening it seems to have become about the only thing.
In the old days they cared about money too, but there was something more.
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